If somebody pressed criminal charges against us they should send us the reference number. That is the only way our lawyer can do something about it. Otherwise our hands are tied.
Whoever pressed charges is excluded from the payback-program and would have to sue Betterbets Group by civil law for the money because a small part of it is frozen on accounts in Hong Kong. This could take a few years.
Because a few have changed their names we will later have to do a complete verification and compare that to our current list.
The contract was nothing else than a measure so we can transfer the money from electronic accounts to banks and then back to electronic accounts. Nowadays you can't just simply move such an amount of money. We had to prove where the money came from and that worked out well with the contracts.
Furthermore we did inform about the risk and that information was very important to get to all of you. With it everyone should be disadvised to take out a loan to invest in Betshare. One should never use money which is vital, even more so if there is the possibility of a loss (which is inevitable with betting). There were many irrational users and that's why we tried to inform everyone a bit more. This led to 10 times more payouts than before the contract. Our goal was met because the risk awareness was positively influenced for the most part.
Like with every other investment we wanted to clarify that one should only invest an amount one is prepared to loose. Even if the chances of a loss are very slim. Unfortunately we experienced an exceptional case which destroyed everything.
Under normal circumstances there should have been no more than 15% losses. We know what we are doing we can and want to continue like that.
We currently have 5 suspects but theoretically it could have been everybody. One only needs to try to intrude our servers from outside.
All passwords were stored on the server and all Bitcoin wallets for payout were installed and functional. We should have added more security at that point but because no one knew the server IP we didn't even think about an attack.
This case can't be solved. We talked with experts and it doesn't matter if and where we investigate we will never catch those who hid under a wrong identity and will remain hidden. The identity which was used on the PM accounts was faked. Bitcoin can't be investigated because it was split over more than a thousand payments. It would take years if it was possible at all.
We did everything we could from our side, more is just not possible. Within a short time we will make an offer which can be accepted or denied. We will certainly use the rest of the money to work ourselves up again from a secure distance. Everything else would be irresponsible and plain wrong.
We are ready to cooperate, if that is possible, but we will be very cautious about it.
Freitag, 27. Mai 2016
Identity
It was only a question of time until our Identity would be made public or, to put it in a better way, found out by the wrong people. We didn't really hide to be fair.
The thing is if we ever read our surnames on the internet it will only be a question of time too until we disappear altogether. Somehow or another.
Either we get disguised or we have to completely go into hiding.
We have been hacked and there is almost no money left. What can we do from now on?
Everyone knew what they were doing. We advised against it and made clear via the contracts that one can always loose money.
It's correct that under normal circumstances a loss should not have been possible.
But no one saw the hack coming.
We know that the hack originated in our own rows from people who worked with us but there is nothing we can do.
We will figure something out as soon as possible.
The thing is if we ever read our surnames on the internet it will only be a question of time too until we disappear altogether. Somehow or another.
Either we get disguised or we have to completely go into hiding.
We have been hacked and there is almost no money left. What can we do from now on?
Everyone knew what they were doing. We advised against it and made clear via the contracts that one can always loose money.
It's correct that under normal circumstances a loss should not have been possible.
But no one saw the hack coming.
We know that the hack originated in our own rows from people who worked with us but there is nothing we can do.
We will figure something out as soon as possible.
Sonntag, 22. Mai 2016
Update
Good Sunday to everybody.
The core of our group has found an accommodation and a lawyer in Hong Kong. From here we can search for solutions with our business behind our back.
If we would still be living in Germany it would be pretty dangerous for us and the money.
We are already target of investigations and those who know our identity have been waiting on our doorsteps.
If we can't work without disturbance how are we supposed to generate money. The money has as a matter of fact been stolen and lost and we can't bring that back.
Rebuilding our betting network is currently financially impossible. The volume which we are able to generate is merely enough for the rent and the lawyers.
Surely we want to cooperate but with a total volume of 1.5 million dollars we have to abide by the rules. This isn't fun and games, especially for the department of prosecution. They could detain us solely because of flight risk. Many of the so called HYIPs didn't even make a tenth of the 1.5 million. We definitely belong to the upper tier and it doesn't matter at all if we used the money for betting or not. We are not allowed to collect money without permission. Period. Even the contract we set up doesn't help us because the offense happened in the past.
Legally speaking we currently have no money but we have been collected some. This means that for every dispute Betterbets Group is held responsible. Without questions. We still have to face the consequences of collecting money without permission. Even if this is not classified as a scam it would certainly make our lives more difficult.
Because our bank accounts have been frozen the investigators already know our names and would most likely give them to the German agencies.
It is only a question of time.
As you can see there are enough reasons to leave the country. Don't look it at as "fleeing" but as an action to protect us and you. If we go belly up no one will receive any money back.
According to our lawyers we are legally fine here in Hong Kong. The company has the responsibility for the business and earning profits but we have the moral responsibility of paying the money back as long as it's possible for us.
Dienstag, 17. Mai 2016
Offers
It's not like we are forced to do that.
We want to pay back. I don't want to discuss that anymore.
A few people already know about the following, mostly those who are involved.
Offer A)
We take all the money which is left and invest it. Not betting with it because we would have to reactivate our network und probably have to be on the run until we would have payed back everything.
Then we will throw out everyone who has already made profit.
Then we will incorporate everyone who made losses into a new website.
There, everyone receives one share for each $ lost.
New shares are not available for purchase, obviously.
There will be a return which we generate outside of our company.
As soon as everyone gets their money back, we will cease operations and that's it.
Offer B)
The same as offer A, the difference being that the return will not be available for withdrawal but automatically reinvested, so it would be faster. In this case we would make a public investment in which everyone would have insight.
In our opinion offer A would be more satisfactory because money would be payed our monthly.
We want to pay back. I don't want to discuss that anymore.
A few people already know about the following, mostly those who are involved.
Offer A)
We take all the money which is left and invest it. Not betting with it because we would have to reactivate our network und probably have to be on the run until we would have payed back everything.
Then we will throw out everyone who has already made profit.
Then we will incorporate everyone who made losses into a new website.
There, everyone receives one share for each $ lost.
New shares are not available for purchase, obviously.
There will be a return which we generate outside of our company.
As soon as everyone gets their money back, we will cease operations and that's it.
Offer B)
The same as offer A, the difference being that the return will not be available for withdrawal but automatically reinvested, so it would be faster. In this case we would make a public investment in which everyone would have insight.
In our opinion offer A would be more satisfactory because money would be payed our monthly.
Montag, 16. Mai 2016
Ceasing Operations
We won't return to normal business operations.
The last two tasks we will complete are:
1. Looking out after ourselves which is now necessary because of all the legal complaints.
2. Unfreezing all the money so we can multiply that and payback the money which was deposited.
After that we will run this business only for ourselves, it was a bad decision to go public.
Update
Thank you to everyone who pressed charges against us. The bank where we kept our remaining money froze our main account on Tuesday and expect us to bring legal evidence. Apparently there have been investigations around that.
Furthermore money which was ready to be payout has been frozen on Coinbase.
Now we need to find a way to unfreeze all the money. Without this capital we would have to multiply our current assets by a factor of one hundred and this would surely take a few years.
I'm sorry that I can't offer better news. We will now fly directly to Hong Kong and try to settle the whole situation.
Sonntag, 8. Mai 2016
Current Situation
This is concerning several blogs and forums where people allege things that are simply not true.
I don't believe that someone gets a glimpse into the accounts only because they have a bit of connections left and right.
We have decided to consult an attorney. They will act and react in the name and in terms of Betterbets Group limited and with that for us.
It cannot be that people are insulting us and at the same time demanding money.
The money is gone. We have a lead but there were we already thought the money is they already covered it up. Nothing is traceable there.
Also anyone who really wants to report us will have it easier and through that way we can find an agreement or not.
The attorney will let us know on Monday if he takes over the mandate or not.
Legally. as assumed correctly, we are not obligated. But we want to make things right.
No one was cheated and no one needs to feel duped.
We can't take the money which is still here and split it up percentagewise. That would happen if our accounts get locked.
The prosecutor would freeze the money provided if a court order in Hong Kong can be obtained. Then years would pass of examinations etc. etc.
I can tell you exactly that everyone would then get 5% of his amount of loss and that would take minimum 2, 3 or even 4 years.
If we are forced, we would certainly give up our private holding. Adding on all our private holdings would mean ca. 7% for everyone.
That's the official method. Because we are making real bets, we wouldn't be convicted for fraud but for collecting money before the founding of our company and that without the permit from the authorities. That of course would be bad for us but because we live in Germany that hit would hurt even extra.
But is that what we want to achieve together? Should that be the result? Sure, you maybe would get 7%.
There's also that anyone who is in the black would be investigated by the police. Especially those who have advised. Each connection would be brought to light. The penalty would be definitely higher then the 7% you'd get from Betterbets Groups.
There is no pretty path when you get robbed and the money belongs to someone else and I say it once gain, legally and on grounds of the new contract and due to the fact that we are dealing here with gambling we are not obligated but of course we want to find a way to the satisfaction of everyone involved.
The share capital which is still left can be used as a basis or get frozen.
In the worst case, if we approach it in a very conservative manner, without any risk and only chosen investments combined with a few bets, then we would generate 0.5% per week,
If we want to pay back ALL payments, also the ones who already made profits, then we would need 200 weeks. That's four years, where once a month 2% of the amount is available for pay out. Mind you this is judged with the worst result to make no unrealistic promises.
That's exactly how long it would take with the prosecutor but then the money wouldn't be running and the result would be 5 or maximum 7% minus the costs.
Should our assets not be available then our hands are tied.
But there already some investors who have offered on a voluntary basis to invest money and to "donate" half of the profits to raise our base capital and to increase the speed of our compensation payments. (Please, no further offers needed. There were already enough offers, plus we have to find a secure investment in which the investors don't have to give away money. For example trading at DAX for an own trading account)
We have to check if that actually worth considering. Last year when we planned the hedge we received some great offers which can help multiply the money. But we haven't found out to this day what of it is good or bad.
Me and the whole team understand your anger because it's the same for us. We are glad that most of you still stand on our side. Yes, it looks odd and it doesn't smell good and one could make out many stories. But the truth is the most bitter pill at the moment.
Our team and we both really hope that we will get on our feet again and that we can continue there where we last stopped. We want to touch and change other people's lives in a positive way. What happened here is most certainly not on our agenda.
We have to wait if and in what form reports exist. We already know that there are reports. Some made reports for fraud but where is the fraud? We asked that question the police after they made a house search at one of our team members and the only told us that we should contact our attorney, they would be the one to explain that.
The attorneys have to clear up on all fronts, with the police and other attorneys which will be working against us. We keep ourselves out of that commotion and try to clean up everything and start again.
However this will turn out, I would look forward to when we will stand again at that point in a few years where we were a month ago. And I am certain all of us are hoping for that.
Frank, Jörg and the team
P.S.:
Due to that we want new inventories of the damaged parties because we want to help only the ones who won't to put obstacles in our way.
I don't believe that someone gets a glimpse into the accounts only because they have a bit of connections left and right.
We have decided to consult an attorney. They will act and react in the name and in terms of Betterbets Group limited and with that for us.
It cannot be that people are insulting us and at the same time demanding money.
The money is gone. We have a lead but there were we already thought the money is they already covered it up. Nothing is traceable there.
Also anyone who really wants to report us will have it easier and through that way we can find an agreement or not.
The attorney will let us know on Monday if he takes over the mandate or not.
Legally. as assumed correctly, we are not obligated. But we want to make things right.
No one was cheated and no one needs to feel duped.
We can't take the money which is still here and split it up percentagewise. That would happen if our accounts get locked.
The prosecutor would freeze the money provided if a court order in Hong Kong can be obtained. Then years would pass of examinations etc. etc.
I can tell you exactly that everyone would then get 5% of his amount of loss and that would take minimum 2, 3 or even 4 years.
If we are forced, we would certainly give up our private holding. Adding on all our private holdings would mean ca. 7% for everyone.
That's the official method. Because we are making real bets, we wouldn't be convicted for fraud but for collecting money before the founding of our company and that without the permit from the authorities. That of course would be bad for us but because we live in Germany that hit would hurt even extra.
But is that what we want to achieve together? Should that be the result? Sure, you maybe would get 7%.
There's also that anyone who is in the black would be investigated by the police. Especially those who have advised. Each connection would be brought to light. The penalty would be definitely higher then the 7% you'd get from Betterbets Groups.
There is no pretty path when you get robbed and the money belongs to someone else and I say it once gain, legally and on grounds of the new contract and due to the fact that we are dealing here with gambling we are not obligated but of course we want to find a way to the satisfaction of everyone involved.
The share capital which is still left can be used as a basis or get frozen.
In the worst case, if we approach it in a very conservative manner, without any risk and only chosen investments combined with a few bets, then we would generate 0.5% per week,
If we want to pay back ALL payments, also the ones who already made profits, then we would need 200 weeks. That's four years, where once a month 2% of the amount is available for pay out. Mind you this is judged with the worst result to make no unrealistic promises.
That's exactly how long it would take with the prosecutor but then the money wouldn't be running and the result would be 5 or maximum 7% minus the costs.
Should our assets not be available then our hands are tied.
But there already some investors who have offered on a voluntary basis to invest money and to "donate" half of the profits to raise our base capital and to increase the speed of our compensation payments. (Please, no further offers needed. There were already enough offers, plus we have to find a secure investment in which the investors don't have to give away money. For example trading at DAX for an own trading account)
We have to check if that actually worth considering. Last year when we planned the hedge we received some great offers which can help multiply the money. But we haven't found out to this day what of it is good or bad.
Me and the whole team understand your anger because it's the same for us. We are glad that most of you still stand on our side. Yes, it looks odd and it doesn't smell good and one could make out many stories. But the truth is the most bitter pill at the moment.
Our team and we both really hope that we will get on our feet again and that we can continue there where we last stopped. We want to touch and change other people's lives in a positive way. What happened here is most certainly not on our agenda.
We have to wait if and in what form reports exist. We already know that there are reports. Some made reports for fraud but where is the fraud? We asked that question the police after they made a house search at one of our team members and the only told us that we should contact our attorney, they would be the one to explain that.
The attorneys have to clear up on all fronts, with the police and other attorneys which will be working against us. We keep ourselves out of that commotion and try to clean up everything and start again.
However this will turn out, I would look forward to when we will stand again at that point in a few years where we were a month ago. And I am certain all of us are hoping for that.
Frank, Jörg and the team
P.S.:
Due to that we want new inventories of the damaged parties because we want to help only the ones who won't to put obstacles in our way.
Freitag, 6. Mai 2016
Unnecessary Comments
We had to delete the last blogpost (never published in the English blog) because we continued to receive bad comments and we couldn't read all of them.
It would make a big difference if there was more constructive criticism than nonsense.
We don't like the situation either, we don't want to be put in that category and we don't know where we should start since our reputation is at risk.
Surely some people want to press charges against us, but we didn't expect it from those who were in the system since the beginning and who we know personally .
We can prove our business at all times, even that we have been hacked.
It would be nice if we could all focus on the future so we can revert the damage.
Mittwoch, 4. Mai 2016
Very bad news
I still can't believe it but we received confirmation this afternoon. We have been robbed. Our money is nowhere to be found. We currently try to find out what happened and how it happened.
What we know is that the data needed for this "robbery" was saved in the database for our new website. There we deposited the passwords and keys which we needed for the automatic payouts and apparently that was the weak spot.
It appears that whoever did this waited for the right moment since our account balance on Perfectmoney was never as high as now. Via an API payment, the account was emptied.
We saved all the new data in the database of the new site and we thought they were secure there, because of an encryption.
Furthermore, we incorporated an automated safeguard for the wallets of our bet placers, which should act as a security for their credit card payments. This connection was hacked too and the money stolen. This equals to about 85% of all the money we had in usage.
Of course we knew that such an amount of money would be a magnet for hackers. A few people had access to our database and no firewall was yet installed because we were still testing things out. Furthermore, no outsider knew which IP address or server we were using.
Everyone in our team is currently shocked.
But with one consent we decided that this won't be the end. On the contrary we will learn from this mistake and come back stronger.
Naturally no one should receive any damage because we plan to make up for any true losses - partly because we want to prove that we are not the "bad guys", which rumor already has.
In a few days we will know more about how we are going to tackle this enormous challenge.
Today at noon we received all the money which would be used for payouts on our PM accounts (directly from our bank accounts in Hong Kong). We hat 5 accounts for payouts in total. One for small, moderate, large and very large payouts respectively and one for new deposits to transfer to other users.
Because the data of the 4 accounts are stored on the new servers, we assume someone took advantage of the chaos or waited until enough money in on there because they knew we had to pay out 3 weeks simultaneously.
Maybe even an employee of one of the involved companies gave someone a clue that a lot of money is on those accounts.
Unfortunately Perfectmoney does not cooperate, even if it's about big sums, but we already know that.
A few possibilities were discussed during a brainstorming today.
It doesn't matter which solution we'll find, we'll reduce our own shares so we can repair the damage faster.
The total losses equate to nearly 1 million USD which we'll have to earn back so no one has to leave with a loss. To accomplish that we have to work for months, maybe even for one or two years.
It is going to be a difficult task which we'll have to solve. Mostly because we have to start fresh from the beginning.
Currently we try to collect all the remaining money on our bank accounts which we recently set up in Hong Kong. There the money is at least safe from hackers but we don't trust banks either because we had our accounts frozen in the past which would make us completely incapable of any action. As soon as we recovered everything we will reactivate our network.
We know that this news is pretty disastrous for many users but under no circumstances have we every thought something like this may happen. Least of all because we did everything to become more secure. A lot of people earned loads of money with Betshare but there are a few which haven't even made profit yet. Those are the ones we want to and will help at first.
Therefore we have to precisely determine who that is and how much money we have to bring together.
I want to emphasize that we are by law not obligated to do that but because we have morals and integrity we have to at least make up for any true net losses for any user.
It would be enough if everyone who made profit would hand over a quarter of the net profit. The whole situation would be solved in less than a day (but this is more or less utopia).
Please do not send us e-mails because we'll probably receive more than we can ever respond to.
We will inform via this blog. We do read the comments and answer those generally.
Just let us work on this problem and we will find a solution which works for everybody. Like always.
It's a fact that if we overcome all the damage and people think of us normally again, only then we will do a fresh start and use everything we've learned so far to do it better.
This is our goal.
Many will be angry at us and we understand that but please let us prove that we stick to our system and that we are the good guys.
What we know is that the data needed for this "robbery" was saved in the database for our new website. There we deposited the passwords and keys which we needed for the automatic payouts and apparently that was the weak spot.
It appears that whoever did this waited for the right moment since our account balance on Perfectmoney was never as high as now. Via an API payment, the account was emptied.
We saved all the new data in the database of the new site and we thought they were secure there, because of an encryption.
Furthermore, we incorporated an automated safeguard for the wallets of our bet placers, which should act as a security for their credit card payments. This connection was hacked too and the money stolen. This equals to about 85% of all the money we had in usage.
Of course we knew that such an amount of money would be a magnet for hackers. A few people had access to our database and no firewall was yet installed because we were still testing things out. Furthermore, no outsider knew which IP address or server we were using.
Everyone in our team is currently shocked.
But with one consent we decided that this won't be the end. On the contrary we will learn from this mistake and come back stronger.
Naturally no one should receive any damage because we plan to make up for any true losses - partly because we want to prove that we are not the "bad guys", which rumor already has.
In a few days we will know more about how we are going to tackle this enormous challenge.
Today at noon we received all the money which would be used for payouts on our PM accounts (directly from our bank accounts in Hong Kong). We hat 5 accounts for payouts in total. One for small, moderate, large and very large payouts respectively and one for new deposits to transfer to other users.
Because the data of the 4 accounts are stored on the new servers, we assume someone took advantage of the chaos or waited until enough money in on there because they knew we had to pay out 3 weeks simultaneously.
Maybe even an employee of one of the involved companies gave someone a clue that a lot of money is on those accounts.
Unfortunately Perfectmoney does not cooperate, even if it's about big sums, but we already know that.
A few possibilities were discussed during a brainstorming today.
It doesn't matter which solution we'll find, we'll reduce our own shares so we can repair the damage faster.
The total losses equate to nearly 1 million USD which we'll have to earn back so no one has to leave with a loss. To accomplish that we have to work for months, maybe even for one or two years.
It is going to be a difficult task which we'll have to solve. Mostly because we have to start fresh from the beginning.
Currently we try to collect all the remaining money on our bank accounts which we recently set up in Hong Kong. There the money is at least safe from hackers but we don't trust banks either because we had our accounts frozen in the past which would make us completely incapable of any action. As soon as we recovered everything we will reactivate our network.
We know that this news is pretty disastrous for many users but under no circumstances have we every thought something like this may happen. Least of all because we did everything to become more secure. A lot of people earned loads of money with Betshare but there are a few which haven't even made profit yet. Those are the ones we want to and will help at first.
Therefore we have to precisely determine who that is and how much money we have to bring together.
I want to emphasize that we are by law not obligated to do that but because we have morals and integrity we have to at least make up for any true net losses for any user.
It would be enough if everyone who made profit would hand over a quarter of the net profit. The whole situation would be solved in less than a day (but this is more or less utopia).
Please do not send us e-mails because we'll probably receive more than we can ever respond to.
We will inform via this blog. We do read the comments and answer those generally.
Just let us work on this problem and we will find a solution which works for everybody. Like always.
It's a fact that if we overcome all the damage and people think of us normally again, only then we will do a fresh start and use everything we've learned so far to do it better.
This is our goal.
Many will be angry at us and we understand that but please let us prove that we stick to our system and that we are the good guys.
Update
To all of you,
Thank you for the countless offers, but we already have someone who has the knowledge and takes care of our database. Unfortunately he hasn't responded for 2 days.
This means we are completely stuck.
We understand that you are angry or impatient and we are too interested in getting things ordered as soon as possible.
At first we want to reactivate the comment section.
We will inform you as soon as news arrive.
Thank you for the countless offers, but we already have someone who has the knowledge and takes care of our database. Unfortunately he hasn't responded for 2 days.
This means we are completely stuck.
We understand that you are angry or impatient and we are too interested in getting things ordered as soon as possible.
At first we want to reactivate the comment section.
We will inform you as soon as news arrive.
Dienstag, 3. Mai 2016
Going haywire
We know that everyone is going haywire in blind panic but we are still working on the problem.
Our problem is that we don't find anyone who is capable of integrating the database as it is.
To transfer all the users manually is not an option at the moment.
Until we handle it, another option for the payouts is to wait this and next week and keep the multiple bookings as they are.
For security reasons we have transferred all the money on bank accounts at a Hong Kong company and we need three days time to convert the money in PM again.
We are sorry that everything is all haywire but at the moment we can't change it.
Our problem is that we don't find anyone who is capable of integrating the database as it is.
To transfer all the users manually is not an option at the moment.
Until we handle it, another option for the payouts is to wait this and next week and keep the multiple bookings as they are.
For security reasons we have transferred all the money on bank accounts at a Hong Kong company and we need three days time to convert the money in PM again.
We are sorry that everything is all haywire but at the moment we can't change it.
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